Jump Points as weapons

Post by Ti
We saw that the first time a Shadow encountered a WS, it was destroyed
by a jump point (jp) being opened in another jp.
Why was this tactic not used more often?
Was a jump gate required?
Also, a jump point was used to destroy a Drak ship.
Why wasn't the jump point used as a weapon?

Jump gates are real expensive.

The Shadows used jump points to destroy opposing space craft. When a
space craft was attempting to flee a Shadow vessel, the Shadow vessel
would shoot a disrupter into the opening jump point causing it to
collapse.

Sheridan opened a jump point inside a jump point as an act disperation.
Sheridan's Whitstar was no match against the Shadow Battle Crab. Also,
destroying the jump gate served another purpose. It was a jump gate
close to the dead Markab home world. Sheridan did not like scavengers
using the jump gate to loot a dead planet.

On the other hand, why did Startrek ships never use transporters as
weapons. All they would have to do is transport 100 kilograms of mass
over and simply forget to rematerilize it. A 100 kilo's of mass makes a
hell of a lot of energy.

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2003-07-16 01:38:08 UTC

What episode was that in?

Post by Michael Vester
Sheridan opened a jump point inside a jump point as an act disperation.
Sheridan's Whitstar was no match against the Shadow Battle Crab. Also,
destroying the jump gate served another purpose. It was a jump gate
close to the dead Markab home world. Sheridan did not like scavengers
using the jump gate to loot a dead planet.

Was it mentioned that a jump gate was required? He only had one ship so
he had to use a jump gate but if there was another ship, would they still
require a jump gate?

<snipped part about ST because it is a red herring and doesn't have
anything to do with my question>

Virgo Pärna

2003-07-16 07:23:16 UTC

Post by Ti
Was it mentioned that a jump gate was required? He only had one ship so
he had to use a jump gate but if there was another ship, would they still
require a jump gate?

Well, Whitestar was barely able to survive it. In the case of
jumppoint inside of jumpoint generated by ship, the ship, generating
outer jumppoint would probably had even less chances to survive.

--
Virgo Pärna
***@mail.ee

Paul Yearwood

2003-07-16 23:52:08 UTC

Post by Ti
We saw that the first time a Shadow encountered a WS, it was
destroyed by a jump point (jp) being opened in another jp.
Why was this tactic not used more often?
Was a jump gate required?
Also, a jump point was used to destroy a Drak ship.
Why wasn't the jump point used as a weapon?

Disrupter? The Shadows got their weapons from Romulus?

Post by Ti
What episode was that in?

I got that tidbit of information from http://hyperspace.isnnews.net/
Hyperspace 4.0, A Guide to the Ships of Babylon 5 and Crusade.

Post by Michael Vester
Sheridan opened a jump point inside a jump point as an act
disperation.
Sheridan's Whitstar was no match against the Shadow Battle Crab.
Also,
destroying the jump gate served another purpose. It was a jump gate
close to the dead Markab home world. Sheridan did not like
scavengers using the jump gate to loot a dead planet.

Was it mentioned that a jump gate was required? He only had one ship
so he had to use a jump gate but if there was another ship, would they
still require a jump gate?

If a second ship was used, the energy release would have destoried it, as it
did the jump gate.

The Shadow ship followed Sheridan in hyperspace. Sheridan used the jump
gate near the Markab world to create the second jump point.

Post by Ti
<snipped part about ST because it is a red herring and doesn't have
anything to do with my question>

Had nothing to do with your question, sorry. This group is
alt.startrek.vs.babylon5, so I was trying to keep on topic. By the way,
a Shadow Battle Crab could whip any ship from Startrek. The successes
of Babylon 5 ships against Shadow ships were due to the exceptional
leadership skills of Sheridan

.It was the "Blip" telepaths that gave Sheridan the advantage. The Shadow
vessels were neutralized by the psychics on board the White Stars and other
vessels. As far as Sheridan being a brilliant tactician, the only way he
could destroy a Mimbari ship was by deceit and trickery. He showed he had no
honor in either the B5 or ST series. It is like if Warf had thrown sand in
the face of Duras while using batliths in a duel

Maybe, just maybe, Jean Luc Picard could go against a Shadow ship. But
the rest of the Startrek leadership would not stand a chance. How many
times did Janeway have her ship taken away from her? At least Sheridan
never got kicked off his own ship.
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Michael Vester

2003-07-17 18:08:54 UTC

Post by Ti
We saw that the first time a Shadow encountered a WS, it was
destroyed by a jump point (jp) being opened in another jp.
Why was this tactic not used more often?
Was a jump gate required?
Also, a jump point was used to destroy a Drak ship.
Why wasn't the jump point used as a weapon?

Disrupter? The Shadows got their weapons from Romulus?

Post by Ti
What episode was that in?

I got that tidbit of information from http://hyperspace.isnnews.net/
Hyperspace 4.0, A Guide to the Ships of Babylon 5 and Crusade.

Post by Michael Vester
Sheridan opened a jump point inside a jump point as an act disperation.
Sheridan's Whitstar was no match against the Shadow Battle Crab.
Also,
destroying the jump gate served another purpose. It was a jump
gate close to the dead Markab home world. Sheridan did not like
scavengers using the jump gate to loot a dead planet.

Was it mentioned that a jump gate was required? He only had one
ship so he had to use a jump gate but if there was another ship,
would they still require a jump gate?

If a second ship was used, the energy release would have destoried it,
as it did the jump gate.

The Shadow ship followed Sheridan in hyperspace. Sheridan used the
jump gate near the Markab world to create the second jump point.

Post by Ti
<snipped part about ST because it is a red herring and doesn't
have anything to do with my question>

Had nothing to do with your question, sorry. This group is
alt.startrek.vs.babylon5, so I was trying to keep on topic. By the
way, a Shadow Battle Crab could whip any ship from Startrek. The
successes of Babylon 5 ships against Shadow ships were due to the
exceptional leadership skills of Sheridan

.It was the "Blip" telepaths that gave Sheridan the advantage. The
Shadow vessels were neutralized by the psychics on board the White
Stars and other vessels. As far as Sheridan being a brilliant
tactician, the only way he could destroy a Mimbari ship was by deceit
and trickery. He showed he had no honor in either the B5 or ST series.
It is like if Warf had thrown sand in the face of Duras while using
batliths in a duel

What is wrong with using deceit when facing a vastly superior enemy?
Sheridan scored the only victory in the Earth/Mimbari war. If the
Mimbari did not try to finish off Sheridan's badly damaged ship, they
would not have been destroyed. Sheridan used Mimbari ruthlessness
against them.

Sheridan using telepaths against the Shadows is another great example
of his exceptional leadership skills. Again, he was facing a vastly
superior enemy and he used anything to give him an advantage.

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Paul Yearwood

2003-07-25 02:11:04 UTC

Mr. Vester, would you please resubmit your response?
Michael Vester <***@shaw.com> wrote in message news:bf6onn$bc78a$***@ID-121900.news.uni-berlin.de...

Michael Vester

2003-07-28 17:42:11 UTC

Post by Paul Yearwood
Mr. Vester, would you please resubmit your response?

This one? Sorry about the begin<space><space> OEflaw on my quoted
material wrapper. I participate in comp.os.linux.advocacy and using the
wrapper makes my posting look like an attached file to an Outlook
Express user. It bugs the hell out of the Windows advocates to see
their precious news reader fail because of a stupid bug. Outlook
Express considers an begin<space><space> in the body of a message to be
the start of an attachment.

Sometimes I forget to remove it when I post in a different news group.
My sincerest apologies.

If you use Outlook Express for a news reader, you should switch to
something else. Outlook Express is the worst email client ever, not an
opinion but a fact. If I have to use Windows, I use XNews
http://xnews.newsguy.com/

My prefered OS is Linux and I use Knode for a newsreader. It is fairly
unsophisitcated but it does everything I need it to.

By the way, T-15 days until the Season 3 Babylon 5 DVD release. The
best season. My favorite episode is "Severed Dreams", the best one hour
of television ever created. Considering the wasteland that television
is, I guess that is not much of an achievment.

I certainly enjoy "Enterprise" much more than any of the reality shows.
Ever year, the televsion executives still amaze me by putting out even
worst crap than before. The 500 channel universe is a long ways off. I
don't think they have enough material for one channel.

Post by Ti
We saw that the first time a Shadow encountered a WS, it was
destroyed by a jump point (jp) being opened in another jp.
Why was this tactic not used more often?
Was a jump gate required?
Also, a jump point was used to destroy a Drak ship.
Why wasn't the jump point used as a weapon?

Disrupter? The Shadows got their weapons from Romulus?

Post by Ti
What episode was that in?

I got that tidbit of information from http://hyperspace.isnnews.net/
Hyperspace 4.0, A Guide to the Ships of Babylon 5 and Crusade.

Post by Michael Vester
Sheridan opened a jump point inside a jump point as an act disperation.
Sheridan's Whitstar was no match against the Shadow Battle Crab.
Also,
destroying the jump gate served another purpose. It was a jump
gate close to the dead Markab home world. Sheridan did not like
scavengers using the jump gate to loot a dead planet.

Was it mentioned that a jump gate was required? He only had one
ship so he had to use a jump gate but if there was another ship,
would they still require a jump gate?

If a second ship was used, the energy release would have destoried it,
as it did the jump gate.

The Shadow ship followed Sheridan in hyperspace. Sheridan used the
jump gate near the Markab world to create the second jump point.

Post by Ti
<snipped part about ST because it is a red herring and doesn't
have anything to do with my question>

Had nothing to do with your question, sorry. This group is
alt.startrek.vs.babylon5, so I was trying to keep on topic. By the
way, a Shadow Battle Crab could whip any ship from Startrek. The
successes of Babylon 5 ships against Shadow ships were due to the
exceptional leadership skills of Sheridan

.It was the "Blip" telepaths that gave Sheridan the advantage. The
Shadow vessels were neutralized by the psychics on board the White
Stars and other vessels. As far as Sheridan being a brilliant
tactician, the only way he could destroy a Mimbari ship was by deceit
and trickery. He showed he had no honor in either the B5 or ST series.
It is like if Warf had thrown sand in the face of Duras while using
batliths in a duel

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Bill McIntire

2003-07-30 21:06:06 UTC

And so, to try and bring this debate full circle...

Jump points should only be used in desperate situation, and desperate
situations may occur in either the ST or B5 universes.

If this is becoming a discussion of honor, in defense of Sheridan's "deceit
and trickery" during the Minbari War, wasn't it Riker who referred to
dealing with Romulans as a game of chess -- move and countermove, guile and
deceit.

That's just the nature of conflict.

Post by Paul Yearwood
Mr. Vester, would you please resubmit your response?

This one? Sorry about the begin<space><space> OEflaw on my quoted
material wrapper. I participate in comp.os.linux.advocacy and using the
wrapper makes my posting look like an attached file to an Outlook
Express user. It bugs the hell out of the Windows advocates to see
their precious news reader fail because of a stupid bug. Outlook
Express considers an begin<space><space> in the body of a message to be
the start of an attachment.
Sometimes I forget to remove it when I post in a different news group.
My sincerest apologies.
If you use Outlook Express for a news reader, you should switch to
something else. Outlook Express is the worst email client ever, not an
opinion but a fact. If I have to use Windows, I use XNews
http://xnews.newsguy.com/
My prefered OS is Linux and I use Knode for a newsreader. It is fairly
unsophisitcated but it does everything I need it to.
By the way, T-15 days until the Season 3 Babylon 5 DVD release. The
best season. My favorite episode is "Severed Dreams", the best one hour
of television ever created. Considering the wasteland that television
is, I guess that is not much of an achievment.
I certainly enjoy "Enterprise" much more than any of the reality shows.
Ever year, the televsion executives still amaze me by putting out even
worst crap than before. The 500 channel universe is a long ways off. I
don't think they have enough material for one channel.

Post by Ti
We saw that the first time a Shadow encountered a WS, it was
destroyed by a jump point (jp) being opened in another jp.
Why was this tactic not used more often?
Was a jump gate required?
Also, a jump point was used to destroy a Drak ship.
Why wasn't the jump point used as a weapon?

Disrupter? The Shadows got their weapons from Romulus?

Post by Ti
What episode was that in?

I got that tidbit of information from http://hyperspace.isnnews.net/
Hyperspace 4.0, A Guide to the Ships of Babylon 5 and Crusade.

Post by Michael Vester
Sheridan opened a jump point inside a jump point as an act disperation.
Sheridan's Whitstar was no match against the Shadow Battle Crab.
Also,
destroying the jump gate served another purpose. It was a jump
gate close to the dead Markab home world. Sheridan did not like
scavengers using the jump gate to loot a dead planet.

Was it mentioned that a jump gate was required? He only had one
ship so he had to use a jump gate but if there was another ship,
would they still require a jump gate?

If a second ship was used, the energy release would have destoried it,
as it did the jump gate.

The Shadow ship followed Sheridan in hyperspace. Sheridan used the
jump gate near the Markab world to create the second jump point.

Post by Ti
<snipped part about ST because it is a red herring and doesn't
have anything to do with my question>

Had nothing to do with your question, sorry. This group is
alt.startrek.vs.babylon5, so I was trying to keep on topic. By the
way, a Shadow Battle Crab could whip any ship from Startrek. The
successes of Babylon 5 ships against Shadow ships were due to the
exceptional leadership skills of Sheridan

.It was the "Blip" telepaths that gave Sheridan the advantage. The
Shadow vessels were neutralized by the psychics on board the White
Stars and other vessels. As far as Sheridan being a brilliant
tactician, the only way he could destroy a Mimbari ship was by deceit
and trickery. He showed he had no honor in either the B5 or ST series.
It is like if Warf had thrown sand in the face of Duras while using
batliths in a duel

What is wrong with using deceit when facing a vastly superior enemy?
Sheridan scored the only victory in the Earth/Mimbari war. If the
Mimbari did not try to finish off Sheridan's badly damaged ship, they
would not have been destroyed. Sheridan used Mimbari ruthlessness
against them.
Sheridan using telepaths against the Shadows is another great example
of his exceptional leadership skills. Again, he was facing a vastly
superior enemy and he used anything to give him an advantage.

2003-07-17 20:58:23 UTC

Post by Ti
We saw that the first time a Shadow encountered a WS, it was
destroyed by a jump point (jp) being opened in another jp.
Why was this tactic not used more often?
Was a jump gate required?
Also, a jump point was used to destroy a Drak ship.
Why wasn't the jump point used as a weapon?

What episode was that in?

I got that tidbit of information from http://hyperspace.isnnews.net/
Hyperspace 4.0, A Guide to the Ships of Babylon 5 and Crusade.

That is not an episode.
I'm don't think it is an official B5 site either.

Post by Michael Vester
Sheridan opened a jump point inside a jump point as an act
disperation.
Sheridan's Whitstar was no match against the Shadow Battle Crab.
Also,
destroying the jump gate served another purpose. It was a jump gate
close to the dead Markab home world. Sheridan did not like
scavengers using the jump gate to loot a dead planet.

Was it mentioned that a jump gate was required? He only had one ship
so he had to use a jump gate but if there was another ship, would they
still require a jump gate?

The Shadow ship followed Sheridan in hyperspace. Sheridan used the jump
gate near the Markab world to create the second jump point.

Why couldn't two WS do the same thing?

Post by Ti
<snipped part about ST because it is a red herring and doesn't have
anything to do with my question>

Virgo Pärna

2003-07-18 07:31:20 UTC

Post by Ti
That is not an episode.
I'm don't think it is an official B5 site either.

It was in the episode where Narn Homefleet was destroyed by
Shadows - "The Long, Twilight Struggle", first episode of season 3.

Post by Ti
Why couldn't two WS do the same thing?

As I mentioned before, Sheridans Whitestar was barely fast enaugh
to survive it. Using two Whitestarts, you would be risking destruction
of two ships. And it might well be, that in the case, when both
jumpoints are generated by ships, they might collapse faster (just a
speculation).

--
Virgo Pärna
***@mail.ee

2003-07-19 12:42:07 UTC

Post by Virgo PÃ¤rna

Post by Ti
That is not an episode.
I'm don't think it is an official B5 site either.

It was in the episode where Narn Homefleet was destroyed by
Shadows - "The Long, Twilight Struggle", first episode of season 3.

Post by Ti
Why couldn't two WS do the same thing?

I don't see why two WS being destroyed would be so bad, especially in the
case where they would battle something like the Shadow death cloud. In
the end, it would end up costing less and just as Sheridan controled his
WS by remote control, they could have done the same (I would think the
jump engines could be remotely activated)

Deathwalker

2003-09-01 17:20:34 UTC

The other problem was that it only works if your opponent can't make their
own jump point and has to go through a jump gate and that they don't know
that you can't make a jump point and go through a gate. No ship that small
could make a jump point unless like the ws you are using vorlon technology
which is pretty much a million years ahead of the younger races.

Deathwalker

2003-09-01 17:15:43 UTC